The only thing I am wondering is if the assignment of the outputs is in the wrong order. I have a hunch that the ES-5 becomes 9-16, in which caseI should modify the Audulus module to have 9-16 red outputs on the far left, rather that 1-8.
1 Like
I think youâre correct. The ES-5 is 9-16.
1 Like
Post removed by author in order to avoid confusion.
2 Likes
For some random reason I just read this on muffwiggler:
Re: Expert Sleepers ES-9 USB Audio Interface
Post by os » Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:41 am
âAFAIK Audulus doesnât support the necessary encodings for the ES-5. However an ES-8 plus ES-3 would give you 16 outputs from Audulus no problem.â
It would be nice to get some clarification hereâŠ
1 Like
After looking at the Expert Sleeper docs I believe that the comment was correct. I had assumed the ES-5 was an output channel expander but in fact it can only output gates, clock or MIDI. To do this, it uses a pair of output channels from the host module to create the signals. It requires special software to accomplish this so it would not work with Audulus. It works with Silent Way, Max/MSP and VCV rack only.
It doesnât appear that the ES-5 will work with Audulus. In any case the ES-5âs outputs are not capable of audio or CV. They can only provide gates, clock or MIDI. The ES-9 provides 16 input and 16 output channels. The ES-9 has 14 analog inputs and 2 digital inputs and 12 analog outputs and 2 digital outputs. By default channels1-2 are the 1/4" main outputs, 1-2 and 3-4 mixed are the headphone outputs, 5-6 are the SPDIF out, and 9-16 are the 3.5mm output jacks. Channels 7-8 are intended for use with the ES-5 where each channel generates 3 of the 6 ES-5 outputs. The configuration utility can re-assign input and output channels and mixes to any of the physical I/O.
Since there are already 14 hardware outputs available there are only 2 output channels that are not in use. Similarly all 16 input channels are already assigned to hardware inputs. There are SPDIF to analog converters available that are fairly cheap. I use a SPDIF to analog out with my Focusrite and have a synth plugged in to the SPDIF in.
Yes, excuse me for causing confusion, es5 will only work with silent way to output various clock signals.
1 Like
Youâre pretty close to 16 out anyway. I forgot about the main and headphone outs. They do have a plug-in for VCV rack and also Max/MSP. In theory it might be possible to duplicate the MAX/MSP in Audulus but there doesnât seem to be any info on how the ES-5 signals are encoded.
1 Like
I am going to delete my earlier post with the ES-9+ES-5 module.
As you can see that muffwiggler forum post I quoted above was written only a few days ago by os (âOzâ), the one-person-show behind expert sleepers. Audulus is an important piece of software for the ES-8 and ES-9, because of its multi-platform use. Audulus has also been recognized and extremely well reviewed. So, I think it is fairly crucial to have an ES-9 module posted or even pinned moving forward.
Does it seem reasonable that someone should join that muffwiggler thread in order to improve communication, with regard to the ES-5 encoding? From what I have seen, os is a very approachable person who would probably appreciate the clarity. Given all of the detail about the expert sleepers modules you shared above, as well as your expertise in interfacing, maybe it would be possible to figure out what the barrier is and see if it can be overcome.
1 Like
It might be worth asking for the details. I donât know how much interest there might be in the ES-5 and whether it would even be possible to use Audulus to generate the required waveforms. It would likely be CPU intensive. An ES-9 module might be a good idea in any case. Yourâs was pretty close. It needs the main and headphone outputs added and the channel numbers reworked.
I might be able to reverse engineer the Max plug-in but I would have no way to test it.
1 Like
Well, looking ahead, in terms of the ES-8, an âexpansion header allows connection of an Expert Sleepers ES-5, to which in turn you can connect Expert Sleepers gate, CV and MIDI expanders.â So in order to use the ES-8 to pass MIDI out (supposing it were a feature in Audulus 4), I would need to have the ES-5 as well as the MIDI expander.
Whereas with the ES-9, it directly âprovides a pair of MIDI sockets (via a breakout).â
Supposing I had an ES-9, just to simplify. It seems to me that in the world of Audulus, generating MIDI out of the one audio interface is important â especially if Audulus 4 becomes iPad only (since you canât have two interfaces on iOS).
But, then, just passing MIDI back and fourth simply over USB seems like enough of a major improvement to fully utilize a number of midi controllers. (Driving the Digitakt with Audulus patches would probably be pretty fun!) Maybe the direct MIDI ports are not that key for everyoneâs needs, even though the idea of controlling synths with those MIDI ports alone, in the Audulus world would be great for others.
1 Like
While youâre limited to a single audio interface on iOS, it is possible to connect a midi device and an audio interface at the same by using a CCK and hub. The midi connection provided by the ES-5/ESX-8MD relies on software (part of Silent Way) to generate the Midi messages so it seems unlikely that it could be used with Audulus but the midi from the ES-9 is generated onboard so it should work with Audulus. I havenât tried using more than one usb midi device with an iPad but I think it will work assuming you have an app like AUM to route the midi.
1 Like
Using multiple MIDI devices (MIDI over USB) is no problem and has nothing to do with the audio interface. Getting MIDI itself out would. I have other tools I can use for converting MIDI to CV like the mBrane.
But my rack is compact, so I am looking for ways to consolidate functionality and make decisions. Also, mBrane is not integrated with iOS or anything, so I canât run anything out of a DAW or VCV or Audulus (if we got MIDI out). Fortunately, when the Digitakt became a class compliant audio interface it made it possible to do this, but I canât run the ES-8 and the Digitakt at the same time on iOS. So the whole thing is puzzle-like. If I had MIDI IN-OUT under the hood of the ES-8/9 then at least I could run a MIDI hard wire between the Digitakt and the ES-8/9. I may simply run MIDI into mBrane and use its CV output to bring a clock back into Audulus through the ES-8. But then I start loosing crucial inputs for sound.
All this said, until I start to try to operate the Blooper Pedal, Digitakt and Eurorack together with the tools I have, it is tough to know what is going to work. Things should become more clear when the MIDI â TRS cable for the Blooper arrives.
1 Like
I donât believe that MIDI out is any different than MIDI in. AFAIK you can connect multiple MIDI input/output devices to an iPad simultaneously as long as you use something like AUM to route the MIDI. The issue is the single audio interface restriction. Since iOS only has a single system audio device I believe that it uses the last thing connected which at best would be a PITA. I could see no way to disable the Digitakt USB audio interface but a possible alternative approach would be using the ES-8 and some type of USB to MIDI converter to drive the Digitakt. Something like":
https://www.amazon.com/Interface-Converter-Adapter-Indicator-Keyboard/dp/B087G7L7J2/
I did find a neat MIDI consolidator that might prove useful in some configurations:
https://www.perfectcircuit.com/tubbutec-midi-usb-bridge-a.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA5vb-BRCRARIsAJBKc6LhaJW5HP5pZZjgEQT1l5EecmlsaicbDdn-Sxq8VqbHvvsTeBjp3SoaAlGSEALw_wcB**
**
That being said, if your looking for a compact solution, the ES-9 certainly fits the bill. If it had been released at the time I bought the ES-8, I certainly would have opted for the ES-9. My current setup using both the Focusrite and ES-8 works well enough with the Mac but would not be practical with an iPad. The ES-9 is pretty flexible and you would only need to add a preamp for the instruments and maybe a mic to have a âuniversalâ setup.
My biggest issue with using the ES-8 on itâs own is the limit of 4 inputs and no mic or guitar preamp. I could add some additional inputs with an ES-6 but I would still need a pre. Since what Iâve got is working for now, Iâll probably hold off until my current Focusrite stops being useful. Focusrite stated the they donât intend to update the software any further since my model is now âobsoleteâ. Since the software is necessary to switch input modes, pads, etc. the interface would be much less useful without the software. Itâs frustrating to have perfectly functioning hardware stop working because of the software. It works ATM, but Iâm not sure about Big Sur. Not currently an issue since I have other software that isnât yet compatible with Big Sur so I have to wait in any case. At least I can mix and match interfaces with the Mac.
1 Like
Right. Itâs not the iPad that is the barrier, itâs the ES-8 in terms of non-USB MIDI, as well as in terms of Audulus. Itâs not that there arenât other alternatives, itâs more that Audulus is my main interest.
Another issue is trying to reduce gear. There is always another box, another app, another module. One of the reasons I enjoy surfing is I have a wetsuit and a board. Thatâs it.
Funny enough I was checking out that MIDI consolidator above just last night. It might be an option. Maybe when I get everything right Iâll take an overhead shot or something to show how it all fits together.
1 Like
Itâs a shame that the ES-8 doesnât have built-in MIDI support similar to the ES-9. It would certainly be handy. My Focusrite interface has built in DIN MIDI which is handy for my Yamaha piano which only has 5 pin DIN connectors. Iâve also used a MIDI to USB cable similar to the one I posted to connect standard MIDI to USB and had no issues. Since the Digitakt has a MIDI thru connector you could daisy chain from it to other traditional MIDI devices.
One thing to bear in mind with the consolidator is that the two USB connectors are MIDI hosts. Since the iPad is also a MIDI host, it wouldnât be possible to connect it via USB to the consolidator.
1 Like
At the moment, I donât believe that there is any audio/CV interface for Eurorack that even comes close to the ES-9 in terms of flexibility. With the additional inputs and balanced line level outputs, not to mention MIDI, Expert Sleepers has created an almost ideal bridge between the digital world and Eurorack/modular hardware. Maybe your best bet would be to sell the ES-8 and simply purchase an ES-9 and MIDI breakout. Anything else will almost certainly involve multiple pieces of gear to accomplish the same tasks.
1 Like
I have a USB MIDI keyboard and drum pad that I really like, so my idea was to put those through the consolidator. Itâs hard to describe the several functions I have in mind but, mostly, clock sync and transport are very key (consolidator aside). From some early tests it is looking like I can do some control of the Blooper through the ES-8.
Iâll have to see how it all works out. I also have to build some cables for the Blooper.
Itâs too complex to think through without making some moves on the board first.
2 Likes
Does this make a bit of sense? 1. Is it correct 2. Is it the right starting point for someone who just got an ES-9 and might not understand Audulus, since obviously one could have 16 MIDI outputs.
Expert Sleepers ES-9.audulus (14.4 KB)
or maybe thisâŠ
Expert Sleepers ES-9 MIDI.audulus (16.0 KB)
3 Likes
The default routing of the ES-9 iOS a bit confusing as far as channel numbers.
The input channels are:
3.5mm inputs: 1-14
S/PDIF input: 15/16
Outputs are:
Main outputs: 1/2
Headphone output: mix of 1/2 & 3/4
S/PDIF output: 5/6
ES-5 output: 7/8
3.5mm outputs: 9-16
Hereâs a modified version with the S/PDIF I/O and headphone outputs included and the default channel numbers assigned to the front panel jacks. Note that the channels can be reassigned using the ES-9 configuration tool.Output channels 7 and 8 are reserved for the ES-5 header so I didnât include them.
Modified Expert Sleepers ES-9.audulus (14.8 KB)
3 Likes