Audulus + Digitakt

[robertsyrett]

To clarify, the weak point in the chain is just the amazingly awkward Apple dongle. It has a large rectangular mass attached to a short fragile wire and a lightning plug with no means of securing it. So with two other cables plugged into the rectangular mass going in two different directions, I find that I basically have to set the iPad in place and be very careful about how I touch it.

Still I am not going to get an iPad without a charge port, so I really should just appreciate things as they are since I will miss this rig when it becomes obsolete.

[stschoen]

I agree. It would be nice if there were a way to secure everything a bit better. There are lightning extension cables available. Looks like the short ones will support power and data. Might be a little more flexible with a bit more length on the lightning side.

[futureaztec]

What I have to deal with is the apogee jam, into a hub, into the USB to lightening camera connection kit. I am constantly having to unplug and replug and reload Audulus. Imagine an iPad with two 1/4 jacks in and a 1/4 inch headphone jack out with the audio interface built right in. Thick, heavy and built to get scratched up, beat on and easy to replace old parts, including ram and cpu. It would also be nice if it had a midi jack and a couple of USB ports. That would probably put Apple on a new path. Take a hit, reinvest in the geeks and then pander all the new candy back to the public in the years that would follow some fanatic development.

I mean does anyone really want an iPhone 12xyz?

In this alternative I am suggesting, you make more diverse use iPads that people come to appreciate for years and years, like elektron boxes and certain iconic synths. The speed chase just gets looked after by allowing for upgrades and we get away from thinner faster paradigms. Really, they need to take that hit.

That aside, there was a point at which I was into the idea of running daws and vst’s, but if I could just have more cpu and run Audulus, I see no need for the Apple universe. Just getting a unit with a touch screen and lots of cpu and ram, that could provide the platform for massive modular dsp projects would be really fun to work with. I bet people would pay elektron prices for that kind of synth.

Still, I think that one of the most interesting first moves would be to build a flashable guitar pedal with a tiny useful display, where one could export dsp programs.

Check out the price on this little looper with a display. Amazing what can be done now.

https://www.amazon.ca/Donner-Triple-Looper-Progress-Display/dp/B07XDQ2T9N/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=Loop+pedal+with+display&qid=1586142877&sr=8-7

Donner Triple Looper Pedal Review MINI Looper Pedal For Guitar & Bass

So the idea would be to make something the size of the chase Bliss pedals — 1590b — but then have some sort of export program, so that you could build something in Audulus but then export a form of it to the pedal, which would allow the pedal to display certain details while you turned knobs. Then you just have the pedal to work with and the iPad is off. But you could have tons of “patches” saved and ready to load. When you load one of these presets on the pedal, the display gets utilized…

If only that donner pedal had a midi sync. Man, someone has got to make a 1590a or a stereo 1590b with midi sync looper that isn’t 500US. They’d make a fortune right now. If it were me, I’d exploit the chip and also make it a delay effect monster. Making it stereo would give an edge over blooper, but adding an analog gate input or even cv would really be something. Make Noise should do one — a Make Noise guitar pedal.

[stschoen]

Cool looper for the price. Amazingly cheap.
Running Audulus on something other than an iPad/iMac has been talked about several times, typically in some kind of eurorack compatible package. In order to run interesting patches you would need a fairly robust CPU. You could probably get by with a Raspberry Pi 4. Max memory is 4GB but it does allow for storage on a microSD card. People have been able to run Pure Data on Raspberry Pi so it is certainly capable of doing audio DSP. You would then need an ADC and DAC and some type of control inputs (knobs touch pads etc) and the circuitry to support them. You might find this interesting:

https://www.electrosmash.com/pedal-pi

This uses a Raspberry Pi 0 as the CPU. It would be possible to use a Pi 4 in a somewhat larger enclosure and get a more powerful CPU and more storage etc, but you might have to rework the supporting electronics to support the Pi 4.

[stevo3985]

@stschoen That is a great find. I wanted to point out that the max spec’d RasPi 4 with 4GB of RAM actually has the same amount of RAM as the 2017 and 2019 model iPad Pro’s (both 10.5/11” and the 12.9/13” models, minus the few units of the 2019 model that people opted to get 1TB of internal storage, which, for some reason I am not quite sure of, have 6GB of RAM, even though the rest of the hardware internals were all the same).

That is actually more memory than any regular iPad or iPad Air that is currently available (with 2GB and 3GB memory, respectively), so the Pi 4 is actually pretty well matched with the iPad, overall, IMO. I am not sure how the A10X/A12X CPU compares with the processor of the Pi 4, but I would bet that the iPad chipset is at least nominally faster, just because of Apple’s drive to be the top dog in the ARM64 realm.

I am also reasonably sure that the code on the iOS devices is more optimized for running on its dedicated hardware than something that would be built for ARM Linux Raspbian. In spite of those small differences, I think the Pi would be a very capable platform on which to run a more portable and versatile use case for A3/A4 in the future. I hope this comes to be a reality.

[stschoen]

All true! I feel certain the the Pi could run some pretty heavy duty DSP. I would love to build one to fit in a eurorack. You could build a “super” disting. The biggest issue with eurorack would be the rather high voltages. The interfacing would be a bit of a challenge.

[stevo3985]

@futureaztec

So the idea would be to make something the size of the chase Bliss pedals — 1590b — but then have some sort of export program, so that you could build something in Audulus but then export a form of it to the pedal, which would allow the pedal to display certain details while you turned knobs. Then you just have the pedal to work with and the iPad is off. But you could have tons of “patches” saved and ready to load. When you load one of these presets on the pedal, the display gets utilized…

I have been browsing code repos lately, and I noticed that PD has open source libraries that can be utilized in other applications (first place this was noticed recently was inside the Holon.ist app when I was reading the manual). It seems to me that if one were to build a digital pedal based on the the full size RasPi4 form factor, it could be quite simple to do exactly what you are describing. I am going to look into this a bit more, as I have been learning C++ code, since Python (my specialty) is not the best suited language for high speed audio rate calculations and transformations.

Even if I am not the one to create it, perhaps the right amount of research and planning provided to someone else In collaboration, like you mentioning this to us and sparking the discussion, could be another spark in setting the fire that helps a pedal like this to become a reality? How awesome would that be? I find so much inspiration on this forum, as I am surrounded daily by the brilliant ideas, creations, and simple musings of the most talented people I have met in my life. I am convinced that there are a lot of great things in store for the future that those in the know will look back and think, “Isn’t it amazing that started as a simple mention on the Audulus forum? Look at what it has become.”

[futureaztec]

I appreciate your enthusiasm. I have a less hopeful outlook on these things, which is why I relegated myself to academic philosophy. The time span for ideas in that space is large enough, the writers are so disconnected, and the math-like patterns reason make are so alluring, that a good idea can escape the problem of whose idea.

Also, I am not a lover of troubleshooting code. I very much appreciate people who, say, never get around to producing tracks but love writing DSP or buying new gear, figuring it out making a video and moving on. Those folks are great. One way it could work is if there was a standard process for porting Auv3’s over to a hardware device. That way there would be a device-wide community that particular AUv3 developers could plug into — a tweak here a tweak there.

I have found a nice middle ground though. I watch the gear videos, come back to Audulus, make things I enjoy making (like knitting), and just appreciate the few things I have.

The main interest in patch dumping is Audulus specific though. I mean, I could just buy some already made digital modular patching product. But I truly believe that Audulus has all of the tools moving forward to provide the background for very deep inquiries into synthesis. But it is also toy-like, in the right way. Still, I would like to put some vr goggles on and patch in an environment with my whole body.

[futureaztec]

I thought I should add something positive to this thread. As people are aware, elektron has updated the Digitakt firmware about 6 months ago so it is now a class compliant audio interface. I have to say, wow does it ever integrate well.

I have been using the AUM app on an iPad and hosting Audulus through inter-app audio. I like that I can listen to the whole mix with a pair of headphones hooked up to the Digitakt. All the audio is internal. This also makes sampling very fast, since you can always grab whatever audio is passing through the interface. Further, the MIDI is internal so syncing/transports and MIDI sequencing are a breeze (including assigning the 8 encoders to midi learn within Audulus). For some reason I prefer to produce by performing the track, rather than doing heavy DAW editing – even though I probably should do more editing

I think that one takeaway is to champion the ongoing value of companies like elektron who understand how evolving the software means so much to the users. I wish I had a faster iPad (mini 4) so I could do more “in house.” At the same time, I decided to invest in a Chase Bliss Blooper pedal in order to farm out the processing needed for looping stringed instruments. I am hoping that the MIDI cable connection between Blooper and the Digitakt will work well. It’s all such a gamble when trying to plan out how gear will hang together, especially when trying to budget in the right components of a setup.

Conclusion: Audulus + Digitakt is a blast.

[stevo3985]

@stevo3985

I have been browsing code repos lately, and I noticed that PD has open source libraries that can be utilized in other applications (first place this was noticed recently was inside the Holon.ist app when I was reading the manual). It seems to me that if one were to build a digital pedal based on the the full size RasPi4 form factor, it could be quite simple to do exactly what you are describing.

Have you seen the Digit/Meebo pedal, made by a hardware/software synth nerd like us, wondering about almost this exact topic, and he made the thing. Not quite A3 export, but it has a screen, modules, virtual patch cable wires, and you can make anything you can dream up, like the Zoia with a much less steep learning curve involving cryptic button functions.

Dude is a single person company, from what I have been reading about him these past few months since discovery. Check it out at the website here - PolyEffects. He is using almost all open source code, so I downloaded the whole repo to see what I can learn from it. Hopefully something neat will appear in my brain, like a new A3 project for others to enjoy

[futureaztec]

@stevo3985

Have you seen the Digit/Meebo pedal, made by a hardware/software synth nerd like us, wondering about almost this exact topic, and he made the thing.

As time passes there seem to be a number of ‘Audulus-like’ products appearing. To be honest, I am still very much invested in Audulus given all of the details that appeal to the way I like to work. As I mentioned, I have been needing to ‘outsource’ certain tasks Audulus can do, so that I can free it up for other needs. The Digitakt can somewhat take care of percussion, but also MIDI clock/sync, etc. The Blooper Pedal can handle the looping of string phrases. However, I am hoping to be able to also run the Clocked Looper downstream to capture the phrases, then clear the Blooper for more phrases. Then I have a modular which I hope will be able to deal with some synthesis. Audulus, as I see it, is then free to organize and add elements to this process.

I believe this will allow for some real intricacies, since Audulus can interact with all three external hardware systems (the Blooper has a CV input). At the same time, it could turn out to be a cumbersome mess. I suppose that the thinking is, let Audulus perform more logical responsibilities (scale quantization, modulation, sound design, etc.), then become comfortable (muscle memory) with the use of the other units where it all becomes one instrument. Still, I will have to dedicate some time to the discipline of music itself and learn to become a much more competent player. This will take time.

Once the MIDI cable I ordered that runs between Digitakt and Blooper arrives, I think I will know if the setup is tight and simple enough to work with.

I sort of got to this point here with Audulus, then needed to make decisions on how to assign tasks to other hardware – as though Audulus became a planning tool.

The Clocked Looper design is fantastic in my opinion. It is low CPU and you can stack them in parallel or in series. In many ways it is more powerful than the Blooper. I should say, though, I am sure the PolyEffects Meebo would have its own charms.

[stschoen]

One of the things I really like about Audulus is it’s flexibility. I think it makes a lot of sense to use it as “central control”, particularly in a DAW-free setup. Although I typically use Live as my main audio and MIDI management tool, it’s sometimes kind of a pain. I purchased MidiFire as an alternative way to route MIDI between my various bits of hardware and my audio interface has a stand-alone mixer, so I can work without a DAW if I don’t feel like firing up Live. I think that it sometimes gets in the way of creativity when you have to mess with Live.

[stevo3985]

@stschoen

I purchased MidiFire as an alternative way to route MIDI between my various bits of hardware and my audio interface has a stand-alone mixer, so I can work without a DAW if I don’t feel like firing up Live. I think that it sometimes gets in the way of creativity when you have to mess with Live.

@stschoen I feel the exact same way about Live Intro, Reason 11 Suite, and Logic Pro X! It’s like I mentioned to @J031 about his awesome ‘RIGHT fix vs. RIGHT NOW fix’ which he implemented when working with my demo of Echoes in Space and Time module - I have a certain immediacy in my need to create because (especially lately) my inspiration comes to me in fleeting moments that I need to catch by the tail, drag them back, pin them down and capture the way my brain intends, or they will be lost forever.

This is something that is made worse by distractions and ability to use my creative machinery (which is built for MANY MANY MANY other use cases) as a device for so much more than what I am hoping to accomplish in that moment, which is truly a first world problem that I recognize and it sounds so silly, but for me, it can make the difference between accomplishing something important to me and completely wasting an entire night focused on anything other than that thing; it could be any one of a million notifications that has the ability to pull me out of the moment and lose it forever because the distraction is a mere click or swipe away.

This is why I have been more hardware focused in the past year, while using A3 as a means for mostly effects processing with my ES-8 (which, @futureaztec, I also wish sometimes was an ES-9 I had picked up instead, but we soldier on for now and deal (until we can afford to make the switch), right? ), pulling signals into the virtual space, interacting with or transforming them, and finally passing them back out to the real world for consumption by my ears or others around me (in a time long since forgotten, when there was no pandemic and perpetual isolation to be found).

Hardware is, of course, a bit more expensive, it takes up more space, and uses more cables and power outlets, but I have been making much more progress this way. As such, I had been eyeing and saving for the OctaTrack for a little over a year’s time as a potential ‘no more computer necessary’ approach to the workflow. I finally pulled the trigger when I got the chance to get one of the limited 350 of the anniversary edition models about 2 weeks ago. I realize it doesn’t do anything more than the regular MK2, but I like to work with some hardware items that are not only instruments, but also potential collector’s items that may be worth something more on top of the useful function and sentimental value in the future.

It remains to be seen if the OT will be something I vibe with or end up trading away in search of another solution, but I look forward to the potential of working more OTB. The only thing I really may need in the future is some sort of dedicated recording device, which I suppose could be a single instance of Ableton audio lane, for the time being while I am deciding if this is to be my new go-to workflow, which I can then bounce to AIFF or ALAC format file as a means of adding things to my SoundCloud profile.

Perhaps in the future and with a bit more savings, I can get the 1010 BlueBox, as that seems to be a pretty decent way to record live sessions with a LOT of great capabilities, but we will see what the future brings over the next few months working with the OT. At this moment in time, I feel perfectly content, knowing that I have all that I need, and a few choices about how I wish to accomplish what I am trying to do, dependent upon the nature of the sounds in my in my head that I am trying to make tangible.

If anyone has any tips about the workflow or experiences of similar mindset of their own to relate, I would appreciate any feedback. Maybe share if you know of any good resources for learning with the OT, as @robertsyrett once likened the user guide to ‘reading a book full of lullabies that carry you off to dreamland’ or something similar
I hope all of you are having a great weekend!

[stschoen]

I couldn’t agree more. One possibility you might want to consider for recording is something like a Tascam digital recorder. I’ve got a hand held 4 channel unit that actually does a pretty good job. It even has 48 volt phantom for external condenser mikes. I original bought it for field recordings using the built in mikes but it’s very flexible.

I also wish I had an ES-9 instead of the ES-8 but I got the ES-8 before the ES-9 was released and I really can’t justify replacing it.

[stevo3985]

Oh wow I just looked that up and found one for less than $200 on Amazon! That’s a pretty nice looking device! That is going in my ‘save for the future’ list for sure.Thanks for the recommendation @stschoen!

If I end up keeping the OctaTrack as a permanent part of my workflow, I will certainly be looking for something like that in the future. That looks to be perfect for OTB recording.

Something curious about the OT that I noticed, there is a USB cable placed prominently on top of the unit when I open the box…I did a quick search of the web to see if it was capable of doing USB MIDI or something like that. It seems no, and it is not overbridge capable, nor is it a class compliant USB device, as far as I can tell.

This makes it a real tough riddle that has me scratching my head wondering what this cable is actually going to do for me? Any ideas? I’m all for decorations, but I rather like my USB cables and such to have a real, beneficial use case.

[futureaztec]

I would say that the USB cable is for firmware updates. You might appreciate this article written when the mk2’s first came around.

[stevo3985]

As far as the Octrack goes, even with the lack of Overbridge, additional I/O or any update to the internal spec, it does benefit hugely from the reworked front panel, and there’s still nothing that does what it does. I’m sorely tempted to stump up and stop this one from shipping back to Gothenberg.

I guess the author still enjoys it quite a bit, based on that last sentence haha!

That makes a little more sense now with the way he explains it. I was thinking maybe Overbridge not so necessary, but class-compliant USB and MIDI over USB would be nice for the case of using the iPad with it, but that can easily be worked around with my Lightning CCK and iConnectivity Mio USB to MIDI-DIN plug interface, if I really need to do that.

I suppose adding those features might defeat the purpose of what it is, what it stands for, and the ‘get out of the box’ reason I picked it up in the first place. I would still be focused on a ‘distraction utility’ type of workflow if I had the features I thought would be nice. Thanks for the reference to that, @futureaztec. I hope you are having a great weekend!

[stschoen]

I had a look at the OT manual and you can put the OT in a “USB disk mode” where the flash card appears as an external drive to the host computer. In addition to allowing for firmware updates, this allows you to manage audio samples, backup sets, etc. without removing the SD card. Handy if your computer doesn’t have a card reader. It’s similar to the way many digital cameras operate as well as my TASCAM recorder.

[stevo3985]

Oh SWEEET! That is a super handy feature to have, and that had not occurred to me, but it will be incredibly appreciated, as I most certainly do NOT have a CF card reader lol. Thanks for checking that out! I honestly don’t know what I would do without the help of this awesome forum and the incredible minds that are here to help me think through a lot of my decisions.

[stschoen]

I missed that it was a CF card, not an SD card. I’d be stuck too. I have a couple of SD card readers but nothing anymore that will handle a CF card. Guess the Octatrack is showing its age lol.