Running Audulus as IAAP & Interfacing Hardware Modular

Maybe it is easiest to explain what I am doing. I would like to use my KM BopPad to control Dinky’s Taiko. That’s not too hard. I can figure this out in Audulus standalone.

I thought it would be nice to try sending the Taiko through some iOS effects. The trouble is, I don’t really understand how to deal with midi channel routing once Audulus is a plugin for BM3, Cubasis 2, or AUM. It is all easy I am sure, but not totally intuitive for me anyway.

First time using AUM. Thought it would be easier…

So I guess to things. 1. How do I control audulus when it is a guest 2. how to I use the es-8 to route my analog modules through digital effect on iOS?

How is the Bop Pad connecting to your Taiko?

I have a usb hub connected to the powered camera connection kit, which is hooked into the iPad. The ES-8 and the BopPad are both hooked up to the hub. Like I said, it is pretty simple to route the DAC/ADC’s in Audulus. Its when I get into the hosts that things get confusing. It shouldn’t be too hard, as I have had everything setup in the past. The only difference is I am using the ES-8 instead of the Apogee Jam 96k as my usb audio interface.

So you have MIDI coming from BopPad and you turn that into CV to Taiko? I think you might have to reserve your first two outputs for the audio passing out of Audulus and on to other effects.

@robertsyrett has done more complex ES-8 routing than I have so maybe he has something to chime in about?

This will be a nice problem that will go away once we can host AUV3s in Audulus…


It seems like one issue might be getting my head around “midi channels.” There might be a conflict between midi controllers and es-8 channels? I will get to the bottom of it, but I was hoping to avoid a day of troubleshooting on forums. :slight_smile:

No the ES-8 is using audio so it’s not conflicting. If you have Audulus in your first slot it will take in the MIDI from the BopPad, you convert that to CV and send it out to the module on an output other than 1&2 the module comes back in and you send the audio out through 1&2. Does that work?

In standalone…its a host issue.

I have only used bluetooth midi devices with the iPad while using an ES-8, but I think once you have Boppad going into Audulus you should be able to route it wherever you like, including out the ES-8 :slight_smile:

So the MIDI isn’t getting through, but sound will? Can you set up a patch that can confirm that audio goes through from Audulus down to other effects, but that MIDI won’t come in? Cause in that case yes the solution lies somewhere in the MIDI settings of the host.

I am just going to confirm what I can and keep adding it to this post (I am on my break at work so it might be a while before I can continue:

  1. I can open cubasis, load up a stock midi piano that comes with the daw, and punch some midi notes into the roll. I get audio out, no problems.

  2. If I substitute Audulus for the stock piano I get no sound. I ran the 1 and 2 outputs on the ES-8 to my scope and I can see waveforms. That’s puzzling.

  3. So I figure the levels coming out aren’t right. So I ran the signal through the CTACT between the ES-8 and output and could see it significantly boosting the waveform.

— so looks like a level issue (the level issue I have been having all along).

  1. Tried an insert effect and it is not colouring the signal internally.

  2. Sent the signal out ES-8 1&2 output —> MIX-A 1u tile —> CTACT —> MULT —> ES-8 input 1 —> Cubasis Audio track insert effect —> Output —> amplified portable speaker.

Its crunchy like it is cutting out. Seems like you need the right amount of amplification to drive the circuits. Why is my modular needing to go through an instrument boost module in order to be audible? Once it goes through the CTACT the wave gets really big.

If I run it straight it is in my scope range but not audible at all. If I boost the wave it is no longer contained in the scope window.

It seems like with modular you want to have abundant power behind it, not weak power and then post amplification.

** so I am just relaxing on the midi host stuff for a second and needing to get schooled on modular signal level basics. Stoked I have a scope in my rack though. Its already paying off. :slight_smile:

I guess it is safe to say that if I can get this far in cubasis, I just need to think more clearly about midi host routing.

Reading this:

I think I see what the problem is - you need to use your ES-8 for your master audio output from your iOS device. You cannot use both the headphone jack and the ES-8 at the same time because iOS does not support aggregate devices.

When you plug in the ES-8, it becomes the only way to monitor sound on your iPad. Ouputs 1&2 of the ES-8 are your master audio outputs.

If I had my modular set up with my iPad controlling the ES-8, I would reserve outputs 1-2 and send those to my audio interface on my computer, where I can monitor the sound there.

When we update Audulus to include support for aggregate audio devices, you will be able to use Audulus on a Mac in standalone mode without needing to use outputs 1-2 to send audio out to your interface. You will simply be able to select your headphone out to monitor from within Audulus using, say, DAC outputs 17-18 (since ES-8 has 16 total outputs with the ES-3 expander).

I don’t know when this problem will be addressed on iOS, but it’s not something we can do anything about because there’s no audio preferances pane where you can even create an aggregate device on iOS.

In short, you can’t do what you want to do - both use ES-8 with Audulus to send CVs and then process audio downstream with your DAW and monitor it on your iPad without reserving outputs on your ES-8 to send to an external mixer. I would not recommend plugging the output of the ES-8 into any stereo without some kind of attenuator in between, as it puts out 10x the power that a stereo is usually expecting to see, and would likely fry it.

Not sure why thought I was using the iPad headphone out. I am using the headphone out on the Pulplogic output module.

Busting out a laptop doesn’t make any sense here.

I don’t want an aggregate device

Decoding this: “without reserving outputs on the ES-8”

I take this to mean that I can’t use a channel for more than one function. Obviously. Or does it mean, “you can’t use the ES-8 as your audio interface in a daw, launch Audulus as an IAAP and then utilize the remaining ins and outs for patches in Audulus.”

If the first interpretation is correct, I am back where I was just learning the ins and outs of routing in Cubasis, BM3 and AUM. On the other hand, if the second reading is right all my big plans are dog shit! LOL

I switched the BopPAd for the Xkey to simplify things.

I am running Cubasis with Audulus as an IAAP. I sent the audio out of the ES-8 to a hardware mixer module, through CTACT for a boost, then back into the ES-8. Then I set up an audio track in Cubasis where I recieve the signal and run it though some reverb. Then it goes back out to my outputs. Everything works.

Of note: The sound has a cutting glitchy edge to it. Like when you overload a CPU or a circuit is teetering on the edge of not having enough juice (I can see the lights on the modules dying out a bit).

Heading back to work now. Got pretty far here on my lunch hour. Thanks @biminiroad. I’ll get back into it when I get home.

The problem with your set up and the routing you’re describing appears to me to be the DAW. When I created a similar rack to yours, I did not set it up with the intention of using a DAW with Audulus - Audulus would simply control everything in my modular and make its own sounds, and the ultimate output of that would be fed into a headphone mixer (like your Pulp Logic tile).

The conflict is that to pass audio out of Audulus to your DAW, you have to use channels 1&2. But your DAW also has to pass audio out of channels 1&2. So if you have audio leaving Audulus going on to another plugin, and then you ultimately have a whole mix coming out of the DAW, you will hear whatever’s coming out of Audulus and the total output mix, which includes another copy of what’s coming out of Audulus.

There might be a way of getting around this that I haven’t discovered yet. My ES-8 needed some repairs and it’s coming back to me tomorrow, so I will check then if I can find a workaround. If there isn’t a workaround for this that involves changing the audio channel routing in the DAW, then you have a couple options:

  1. Use Audulus alone right now with your modular like I’d described how my rig was - no external effects or DAWs. Wait until Audulus 4 when we support loading plugins internally in Audulus and use Audulus as your DAW.
  2. Use Audulus on one iPad and put the audio into an iPhone or other iPad if you have it using your Apogee interface, which would also allow you to monitor the output. It would still be mobile but would add a device.

I appreciate the approach. But I think I actually solved it in Cubasis earlier (but I am not sure). I just got home from work so I am about to get into it again…The only issue I think I have is learning how to get all my levels right. Quite often I’ll be driving a broken Ferrari and someone will tell me to just drive it gently. I always want to find the weakest points in a system and make it as strong as possible, then howl the damn machine wide open to see what she’ll do. My aim is to setup for a slot in an evening and when my gear hits the system it sounds deadlier than everyone else’s. There are alot of tricks to getting that to happen and I hope to figure most of them out. This is why you see me building a case with “boring” modules like a stereo filter and what not.

Keep in mind, I am complicating things by routing hardware back into the ES-8 to make use of the cheap high quality digital effects for iOS. In practice I don’t really want to run a nice analog circuit back through an ADC and out again – not that way anyway.

Do midi usb devices use a physical channel up on the ES-8?
Is the ES-6 considered an “aggregate device”?

btw I hooked an ADC up to a trigger button and pushed it, watched it fire the LED on the EG and had an Audulus envelpe CVing the PICO VCA and just the sound, wow. I was only using the Trace scope’s internal oscillator. Then I was playing the Taiko with my drum sticks and I am basically super stoked. I wouldn’t want to be doing this without Audulus.

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No and no. MIDI and audio interfaces have channels but they’re not the same channels. The ES-8 reserves 16 outputs and so when you plug in an ES-3 it’s like turning those channels on, not adding them together like an aggregate device would.

I thought maybe I could shed some light on iOS audio routing particularly with IAA.
iOS only supports a single audio interface at any given time. When you connect an external interface like the ES-8, the system audio input and output devices are routed to the ES-8 and the internal mic and speaker are disconnected. So by connecting the ES-8 you now have 12 channels of audio input and 16 channels of output for your iOS device. The first 4 input channels are connect to the physical inputs of the ES-8 and the first 8 outputs are connected to the physical outputs of the ES-8. As @biminiroad mentions, the remaining channels are for hardware expansions to the ES-8.
When running Audulus or another app with multi-channel support in stand-alone mode, you have access to all the ES-8 I/O channels.
With IAA, AUv3 (or Audiobus) the situation is a bit different. Now the IAA host app is connected to the ES-8, and the plug-in is connected to the host app. There is no direct connection between the plug-in and the ES-8. Like most IAA capable apps, Audulus is currently limited to 2 channels of I/O (1 and 2) in IAA mode, which are connected to the IAA host, not the physical interface. When using an IAA host like AUM, you can route any two channels in and out of Audulus, but, since only a single copy of an IAA app can be running, 2 channels is currently the max for Audulus in IAA mode. It is possible for an IAA app to support more than two channels, so this could potentially change in a future release, although I think it more likely that multichannel support could be part of the AU. Since it is possible to run multiple instances of an AUv3, the forthcoming AU will allow use of more than 2 channels, although at this point it’s unclear whether each AU instance will have access to more than 2.
You can, of course, use the remaining channels of the ES-8 with other plug-ins while running Audulus in IAA mode.
MIDI channels are a completely separate topic. MIDI routing is also possible via IAA but has no effect on audio. I haven’t done much experimenting with MIDI in an IAA environment, so I’m not sure what limitations Audulus might have. I know that in the macOS AU environment there are currently some limitations to MIDI support.


I also wanted to add that in an iOS context, there is no distinction between an audio signal and a CV signal. iOS treats them both as an audio stream. Because the ES-8 is DC coupled, it is possible to send very low frequency signals (LFOs, envelopes, etc.) to and from the iOS device, but they are treated the same as any other audio stream.