Es-9 đŸ˜”

Using multiple MIDI devices (MIDI over USB) is no problem and has nothing to do with the audio interface. Getting MIDI itself out would. I have other tools I can use for converting MIDI to CV like the mBrane.

But my rack is compact, so I am looking for ways to consolidate functionality and make decisions. Also, mBrane is not integrated with iOS or anything, so I can’t run anything out of a DAW or VCV or Audulus (if we got MIDI out). Fortunately, when the Digitakt became a class compliant audio interface it made it possible to do this, but I can’t run the ES-8 and the Digitakt at the same time on iOS. So the whole thing is puzzle-like. If I had MIDI IN-OUT under the hood of the ES-8/9 then at least I could run a MIDI hard wire between the Digitakt and the ES-8/9. I may simply run MIDI into mBrane and use its CV output to bring a clock back into Audulus through the ES-8. But then I start loosing crucial inputs for sound.

All this said, until I start to try to operate the Blooper Pedal, Digitakt and Eurorack together with the tools I have, it is tough to know what is going to work. Things should become more clear when the MIDI → TRS cable for the Blooper arrives.

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I don’t believe that MIDI out is any different than MIDI in. AFAIK you can connect multiple MIDI input/output devices to an iPad simultaneously as long as you use something like AUM to route the MIDI. The issue is the single audio interface restriction. Since iOS only has a single system audio device I believe that it uses the last thing connected which at best would be a PITA. I could see no way to disable the Digitakt USB audio interface but a possible alternative approach would be using the ES-8 and some type of USB to MIDI converter to drive the Digitakt. Something like":
https://www.amazon.com/Interface-Converter-Adapter-Indicator-Keyboard/dp/B087G7L7J2/

I did find a neat MIDI consolidator that might prove useful in some configurations:
https://www.perfectcircuit.com/tubbutec-midi-usb-bridge-a.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA5vb-BRCRARIsAJBKc6LhaJW5HP5pZZjgEQT1l5EecmlsaicbDdn-Sxq8VqbHvvsTeBjp3SoaAlGSEALw_wcB**
**

That being said, if your looking for a compact solution, the ES-9 certainly fits the bill. If it had been released at the time I bought the ES-8, I certainly would have opted for the ES-9. My current setup using both the Focusrite and ES-8 works well enough with the Mac but would not be practical with an iPad. The ES-9 is pretty flexible and you would only need to add a preamp for the instruments and maybe a mic to have a “universal” setup.

My biggest issue with using the ES-8 on it’s own is the limit of 4 inputs and no mic or guitar preamp. I could add some additional inputs with an ES-6 but I would still need a pre. Since what I’ve got is working for now, I’ll probably hold off until my current Focusrite stops being useful. Focusrite stated the they don’t intend to update the software any further since my model is now “obsolete”. Since the software is necessary to switch input modes, pads, etc. the interface would be much less useful without the software. It’s frustrating to have perfectly functioning hardware stop working because of the software. It works ATM, but I’m not sure about Big Sur. Not currently an issue since I have other software that isn’t yet compatible with Big Sur so I have to wait in any case. At least I can mix and match interfaces with the Mac.

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Right. It’s not the iPad that is the barrier, it’s the ES-8 in terms of non-USB MIDI, as well as in terms of Audulus. It’s not that there aren’t other alternatives, it’s more that Audulus is my main interest.

Another issue is trying to reduce gear. There is always another box, another app, another module. One of the reasons I enjoy surfing is I have a wetsuit and a board. That’s it.

Funny enough I was checking out that MIDI consolidator above just last night. It might be an option. Maybe when I get everything right I’ll take an overhead shot or something to show how it all fits together.

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It’s a shame that the ES-8 doesn’t have built-in MIDI support similar to the ES-9. It would certainly be handy. My Focusrite interface has built in DIN MIDI which is handy for my Yamaha piano which only has 5 pin DIN connectors. I’ve also used a MIDI to USB cable similar to the one I posted to connect standard MIDI to USB and had no issues. Since the Digitakt has a MIDI thru connector you could daisy chain from it to other traditional MIDI devices.
One thing to bear in mind with the consolidator is that the two USB connectors are MIDI hosts. Since the iPad is also a MIDI host, it wouldn’t be possible to connect it via USB to the consolidator.

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At the moment, I don’t believe that there is any audio/CV interface for Eurorack that even comes close to the ES-9 in terms of flexibility. With the additional inputs and balanced line level outputs, not to mention MIDI, Expert Sleepers has created an almost ideal bridge between the digital world and Eurorack/modular hardware. Maybe your best bet would be to sell the ES-8 and simply purchase an ES-9 and MIDI breakout. Anything else will almost certainly involve multiple pieces of gear to accomplish the same tasks.

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I have a USB MIDI keyboard and drum pad that I really like, so my idea was to put those through the consolidator. It’s hard to describe the several functions I have in mind but, mostly, clock sync and transport are very key (consolidator aside). From some early tests it is looking like I can do some control of the Blooper through the ES-8.

I’ll have to see how it all works out. I also have to build some cables for the Blooper.

It’s too complex to think through without making some moves on the board first.

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Does this make a bit of sense? 1. Is it correct 2. Is it the right starting point for someone who just got an ES-9 and might not understand Audulus, since obviously one could have 16 MIDI outputs.


Expert Sleepers ES-9.audulus (14.4 KB)

or maybe this


Screen Shot 2020-12-19 at 7.30.32 PM
Expert Sleepers ES-9 MIDI.audulus (16.0 KB)

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The default routing of the ES-9 iOS a bit confusing as far as channel numbers.

The input channels are:
3.5mm inputs: 1-14
S/PDIF input: 15/16

Outputs are:
Main outputs: 1/2
Headphone output: mix of 1/2 & 3/4
S/PDIF output: 5/6
ES-5 output: 7/8
3.5mm outputs: 9-16

Here’s a modified version with the S/PDIF I/O and headphone outputs included and the default channel numbers assigned to the front panel jacks. Note that the channels can be reassigned using the ES-9 configuration tool.Output channels 7 and 8 are reserved for the ES-5 header so I didn’t include them.
Screen Shot 2020-12-20 at 9.07.52 AM
Modified Expert Sleepers ES-9.audulus (14.8 KB)

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I did notice that there are ES-5 encoders available for the iOS version of miRack in case you’re interested

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There is better version of the ES-9 module above @Throwawaydonoteat.

Please let us know if it works well.

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Hey @futureaztec I have been reading about your predicament all week, and I’m sorry you’re having a hard time with limitations. :confused:

On the other hand (at least IMO), half the fun of the issue is the critical thinking that you get to exercise in coming up with a creative solution. If anybody can do it, it’s you, as I know you to be the king of building workarounds to fit your use case. Finding challenges like this and coming up with ways to overcome them consistently keeps us sharp, and I feel like it makes the victory a lot more enjoyable than the few minutes of joy that you get when you buy an easy route to solve the problem :smiley:

That being said, I saw this while taking a look at (more like drooling over, as I won’t be able to work with it until I sell off some modules in the distant future) the Strymon Magneto, and I noticed they make an attenuator and an amplifier module in a 4HP format, which is about as bare minimum as I would imagine something like this could be. I thought it might be a good thing to consider if you have no way to build your way through it, provided you haven’t already seen and considered this.

Anyway, I hope this will be helpful, as your thread about working with your low level pickups from the guitars, the Blooper, your minimalist rack, and Audulus together from this past week immediately popped into my head the moment I saw it. :exploding_head::partying_face:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AA1EU--strymon-aa1-amplifier-attenuator-eurorack-module

Thanks for the tip. I considered this module as well:

But I have ordered the Befaco INAMP as I found it on sale somewhere. I like the fact that it has gain knobs.

The conversation moved along and I eventually considered the Octopre interface, which I believe could add 8 channels, with preamps, to the ES-8 via ADAT. This would bring the number of inputs up from 4 to 12, but take up no more room in the rack.

If this were to actually work as described, it seems to me like an attractive solution. In the meantime, I hope Santa delivers the INAMP in time for Christmas morning.

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One of the things I like about modular is the sheer number of choices available for any given function. While there are certainly standout modules like Maths that seem to have a wide following, for most things you have solutions available from many different vendors at many different price points. For real flexibility it’s hard to beat the new superdisting (except for Audulus of course).

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I spend way too much time looking through modules. This morning I am playing with the idea of putting a dual head tape style looper in the center of the rack.

Screen Shot 2020-12-22 at 5.49.24 AM

I just love the calm precise development of the Instuo fella.

Like how he has made the faceplate rings on the module capacitive touch sensors!

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Neat looking module. Love the touch sensors. Personally, I think I’d rather have a Boss RC-500 or 505. I realize that you would lose the ability to use CV to modulate the loops and or course they’re not as compact but they’re very flexible loopers and much less costly. Still, modelar is all about personal preferences. I would love to have a Strymon Magneto in my rack but, since I don’t perform it’s hard to justify when I have already have a ton of reverb/echo plug-ins. I love the immediacy of hardware and I think I wouldn’t be satisfied with only virtual instruments but finding a balance between the two worlds, particularly in light of budget constraints, has proven to be somewhat problematic.

Well TBH I am kind of scratching my head right now. I have had to order a special MIDI cable, some plugs and patch cord cable to build a custom Y splitter, and the Befaco INAMP, and a footswitch in order to accommodate Blooper. Blooper only provides one “tape head” which any layering over top has to be the length of the original loop. (I knew all of this but wanted to see if anything would click with me even in its simplicity). It crams in some other effects and whatnot (which I often wish the looping companies wouldn’t do). I picked it up somewhat in defeat, surprised that after all of these years, no one has made the looper I want. At this point, it would have been cheaper to run the Lubadh.

Before the month is up I may call it a loss and return Blooper, not because it is a bad product by any means, but because I am not actually coming at all of this from a guitar pedal world but more from a modular synthesis world – ie., having direct control over effects and understanding what I am doing is a vital part of the joy.

The most important aspect in all of this is syncing, which seems to be an afterthought in all pedal designs. Each one I have looked at has some deal breaking feature missing.

With Blooper I keep hitting creative barriers. I record a loop, pitch it down and think “okay, cool.” Then I go to record some noodling over top and it applies the pitch shifting to everything,
 and so on and so on. It is so hard to know the walls without hitting them.

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It’s hard to know how things will gel with a complex setup like yours, until you can actually try them out. Things that look good on paper often turn out to be impractical in the real world. Unfortunately these days it’s not really possible to try before you buy. (Not that it ever was here in the music store desert.)

I was seriously considering a Maths module but I’ve found that the Hydrasynth’s envelopes are so flexible that with 5 to play with I can generally use 1 or 2 to drive the two CV outs from the Hydrasynth if I need a complex envelope. They can be triggered from an external CV source so they can be independent from the Hydrasynth note on if necessary. They’re variable curve DAHSR that can be synced and looped. The LFOs are similarly flexible.

In fact, I would say that a desktop Hydrasynth would make a pretty amazing add to a modular or semi-modular rig. Two CV inputs, Pitch, Gate, Clock and two CV outputs make it pretty easy to integrate. The clock output will sync with the Hydrasynth’s clock which in turn can sync with an incoming MIDI clock or alternatively the Hydra can act as a master MIDI clock source. The CV inputs are capable of audio rates, so it’s possible to feed an audio signal into the Hydrasynth if necessary. The filters and effects are outstanding, and of course it’s a powerful synth. I’m. beginning to think that adding a desktop version to the keyboard version I already have would give me the most bang for the buck. I know it’s digital rather than analog but my two semi-modulars cover the analog space pretty well for me.

I often wish that Eurorack had been developed just a bit later so that the voltage levels were better aligned with other audio equipment. Modern electronics are much happier at lower voltages than those found in the Eurorack standard. It would make modules significantly less expensive if voltage ranges were lower and it would also ease interconnection if audio signals were at line level. I can envision a more modern standard similar to Eurorack but getting vendors to adopt one might be unmanageable.

Your comment regarding sync got me to looking at the RC-505 user manual.

Looks like it has MIDI sync in and out on both 5 pin and USB. In addition it has L & R instrument and line level inputs, a mic input (with phantom power) and L & R line level outputs. 5 separate tracks, a pretty deep MIDI implementation etc. This version is intended for desktop use rather than as a stomp box but the RC-500 is similar in a footswitch layout.

This mention stings me right in the buyer’s remorse part of my heart, probably about as much as I imagine the ES-9 does for you @stschoen , as the Super Disting EX module came out the week I had finally gotten my waitlisted Disting MK4 module pair, and worse still it actually was priced at ~$25 less than I had just paid for the dual Disting modules. I didn’t want to return them, so Perfect Circuit was nice enough to match the new price they had dropped the Disting 4 pair which was $40 between the two, so my total cost was just below the cost of the Super and overall, just enough to make me feel not as bitter about buying at the time I did :laughing:

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It sucks when something better comes out just after you’ve bought something. Sound like they made an effort to make things right at least. I guess there will always be something new and improved coming down the pike. On the bright side, you had the pair in hand and probably would have had to wait for the super. I noticed it was out of stock at perfect circuit.

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