Poly inputs and outputs
  • Hello Everybody,
    I just found out about Audulus, bought it instantly, but am not too sure if I'm thinking right concerning my setup: i do quadrophonic surround-performances, at the time with two iPads, an iPhone, and a MacBook Pro with Logic Pro 9. I would like to leave out the Macbook, and thus my question is: does Audulus actually recognize 8 seperate inputs/8 seperate outputs, to route at my convenience?
    Will it automatically accept all the inputs/outputs of the class compliant interface (I am thinking about the RME UCX, but am hesitating to buy it only to find out it won't work the desired way)?
    By the way, great App, gave it a 5star review, thanks Taylor for the astonishing work!
    All input is appreciated,
    Greetings, animal
  • Hey @animal, welcome to the forum!

    Audulus for iPad currently only supports stereo in/out, however it should be easy to update it to support multi-channel in/out. I now have an iPad compatible multi-channel audio interface, so I can test it :-)

    The Mac version can do 16 channels in/out.

    I'm out of town today and tomorrow, but I'll give it a shot on Monday to see if its easy to update :-)

    - Taylor
  • I'm glad this came up at this time. I'm also considering RME Fireface UCX as well as Apogee Quartet (4 in, 6 out plus midi in/out). It would be great to have audulus support the full I/O capabilities of these units as they are currently the best of the best for iPad I/O.
  • @BTL, I have a Quartet, so I'll be testing with it :-)

    - Taylor

  • Thanks for the fast response. Another thing I would love to have is an xy- patch for easy one-hand-routing to the 4speakers, so I thought, I'd name it here for discussion. Ideally with the possibility of a stereo input, and four mono outs.
    Any chance for an update with something like it (sometime in the future)...?
    Best wishes, thumbs up, animal
  • I recently got a FocusRite 18i20 at work, where I do 5.1 surround audio engine development. Gone for over a year on a mixer not really designed for it. Focusrite specifically addressed surround sound authoring and performance with this device, to the point where you can configure it so the Main output level control knob controls all 6 outputs (actually configurable to any combination). Each mono or stereo output (pair) can have its own mix, and like the 18i6 the mix setup can be downloaded to the hardware for operation stand-alone (key for you). It works well with Logic too, which does the DAW side of surround sound mixing and panning nicely. The hardware mix is low latency so good for live performance monitoring.

    8 Mic/Instr/Line ins, 10 TRS line outs, coax S/PDIF I/O, two headphone outs with independent level (monitoring outs 7/8 and 9/10), and ADAT I/O. And MIDI I/O. All outs can monitor any input, any of the 8 mixes, or any DAW output. Mac (or Win) is required to configure the mixer since there is no iPad equivalent, so the run time iPad setup is fixed to what you set. But that's OK, usually its a unity level mix and mostly routing not mixing when off the umbilical.

    Large box though, rackmounted, but the $499 is competitive and the Surround Sound awareness makes it AFAICT unique. As does the hardware mixing and routing. I have not yet hooked it up to my iPad but now I will give it a try for you. I have the 2i2 and 18i6 at home, both work flawlessly with the iPad. Auria sees all 6 outs on the 18i6, so I am optimistic.

    Note: the 18i6 will not do 5.1 surround for you .The 6 outs are 2 Main, 2 headphone, and S/PDIF. There is no common mix master and no level control on the S/PDIF. You might be able to coax it to do quad, but you'd lose the headphone monitoring to do that.
  • Taylor,
    If I may, some non audulus related questions concerning Quartet.
    As most guitarists, I am a tube amp fan. I like my amp super clean, hi-fi, robust in frequency respones with good bottom end, smooth top end and good reproduction of natural harmonics without a trace of distortion. (I prefer to custom taylor any intentional distortion or other effects with quality analog pedals).
    I have heard (verbally) that RME Fireface UCX accomplishes the above better but have also heard that the Quartet is cleaner, perhaps I bit thinner sounding with less bottom end. Ofcourse, that's all subjective, especially in light of the fact that I have found that what many guitarists consider a clean sound still has signifant distortion in my opinion. I haven't heard any side by side comparisons. I like the fact that the Quartet charges the iPad while in use.
    I have the Apogee Jam. As a single input inline ipad guitar interface, it's not bad but but does sound a bit thin and grainy, though I have, as of yet, only run it into AmpKit, which is based on amp modeling (not a fan of amp modeling, even in hardware.) which in itself may be the problem.
    The Quartet, however, has full blown Apogee quality DACs and I'm leaning toward the opinion it may be closer to what I am looking for.
    From a clean, natural, hi-fi guitar tube amp perspective, what would your opinion of the Quartet be ?
  • Hey @BTL, I mainly like the Quartet for its UI and feature set. Maybe I just don't have great ears, but I did some comparisons between Apogee and my old MOTU 896 (10 years old, served me well!) and I couldn't tell the difference between the mic preamps in terms of tone. However the Apogee's preamps do have more gain. I would imagine the UCX is also top notch.

    Probably I would go with the Apogee just because its less expensive (at least here in the US) and has four mic preamps instead of two. The Focusrite interface recommended above by @dwarman might also be a good option... it sounds like a great value :-).

    - Taylor
  • @animal, thanks! Also, thank you for the review! What country are you in? You may have won a free copy of Audulus, see: http://forum.audulus.com/discussion/115/winners-be-the-first-to-review-audulus-2-1-in-your-country-on-app-store-win-a-promotional-code

    - Taylor
  • Taylor,
    Thanks -leaning toward Quartet myself for same reasons, features: 4 inst. level inputs, as I often do outboard analog parallelled effects; iPad charging; and the UI also looks good to me.
    I'll check out the FocusRite also before purchasing.
  • Dwarman,
    Are you sure that all eight of those inputs allow for instrument level? From their website, it looks like only the two front panel inputs provide instrument level input.
    Also, are there any spec. sheets included that specifically state the instrument level input impedance ? ....(not available on website).
    I prefer 1Meg ohm or greater (better capture of natural guitar overtones, particularly with single coil, when running superclean).
    The RME UCX states 470 K, which concerns me. I have found that anything less than 1Meg ever so slightly loads single coils but enough to roll off the top end where the natural overtones are. You can never get them back if they're lost in the front end but you can always EQ them out if you want to, if you captured them in the first place.
  • @BTL: you're right, only the front two are switchable to instr. We probably have to ask Focusrite about the input impedance though, the specs in the manual don't list it. However all the nim line share the same circuitry and the 20-20K +- 0.1dB flatness sounds pretty good. My J-Bass has no surprises, anyway.

    I noticed on their site they explicitly mention iOS compatibility. I'll report tomorrow night. Somebody post something so this thread shows up for me again:)
  • Dwarman,
    Called FocusRite today - the answer is 1 Meg ohm input imp. in the inst. mode, in case you're interested.
    The impedance effect that I spoke of is independent of front end bandwidth. Some of the high end active guitar signal splitters for multi-amp staging (such as Radial JD7, split 1guitar to up to 8 amps) provide input impedance adjustment (I believe from about 500K to 2Meg.) to custom tune the response and liveliness of your guitar coils (B.W. stays constant at 20-20K). Most audible when playing superclean but also can effect harmonic content and harshness when playing distorted. May or may not show similar effect with bass since both the fundamentals and the harmonic overtones are lower in the frequency range (first noticeable effect when reducing impedance is loss of overtones).
    I'll look forward to your report - do you plan on testing the iPad/Audulus multiple I/O capabilities of the unit?
    In the very near future, I will be setting up a MacBook Pro based DAW. A nice feature of all three units discussed in this thread is that they are transportable between the Mac and the iPad. The ability of each unit to handle multi I/O in iPad Audulus and other apps will certainly be part of my purchasing decision.
  • @Taylor, I am located in Germany, no need for a thanks though, since I am genuinely really really happy with the effort you have put in your App ,and still do!
    Concerning Interfaces: for my setup I need 7 inputs (3x stereo, 1x mono), thus the Quartet won't do for me. Also, the interface has to be as portable as possible (currently working with the MOTU Ultralite mkIII), so I think I am left with the possibility of the RME UCX... . My sounds are experimental electroacoustics, mostly sub-tones, so I guess, I'll be fine with the Impedances, only: the RME will be a lot of money... .
    Anyways, I also need the ability to route sounds easily in the quadrophonic space (as of now, I'm working with logic's surround panner, remote controlled by one of my iPads (TouchOSC), so I am kind of hoping on Auria to be updated thus, or an xy-patch in Audulus preferably.
    Maybe there's also another chance of getting to where I want to go (without a PC) that I'm not aware of, if so, don't hesitate to enlighten me,
    Cheers, greetings, animal
  • Animal,
    Didn't mean to leave the wrong impression. The 1meg. thing is just a personal preference of mine. By un-loading the coils as much as possible to capture all overtones, and playing clean into parallel effects loops, I can get some unique guitar tones/effects. I just as often, however, have to tamp them back down with EQ's. I'm sure the UCX sounds great - it's one of the best and I'm still considering it.
    1meg. Is pretty much today's standard for tube and solid state FET amps. Some of the older solid state amps based on bipolar transistor technology were 500k (470K) so I was surprised to see it was 470K. There are still many current pedals with 500K also. There are actually still valid reasons to design to 500k as it improves signal to noise ratio, but that's typically less valid with tubes and today's low noise FET inputs.
  • Well, the 18i20 certainly talks to iOS with no problems. In fact, it exceeds things a little. I had thought that plugging in a USB Audio device automatically cut out the headphone jack both input and output. But Auria will add a headphone pair of outs to the end on the output matrix and indeed the output is routed to the headphone jack! Everything else is routed as DAW outputs to the 18i20 matrix as saved to hardware by the Scarlett MixControl Mac/Win manager/mixer before re-connecting to the iPad. I got quad with no problems.

    My main concern with high channel count is that even if a channel is not being used (e.g. no ADAT connected) the USB protocol is apparently still carrying them so that represents a wasted CPU load fraction. Which is a good justification for my current strategy of a 2i2 for normal stuff, 18i6 for studio withe external synths, 18i20 for serious work production.

    Now that it looks like you have the pedal board issues under control, let me throw a wrench into the system......sorry... Better now than when already locked into something.
    I was over at one of the keyboard improvement threads and was going to make a post, but thought it might be even more relevant here as it pertains to this UI stuff also.
    I agree with all of the requests in the thread (keyboard response, spacing between keys, keyboard range and placement selection (shifting or scrolling), perhaps a pitch wheel and ..... O.K., a aux. modulation wheel. I was also going to suggest the ability to bring up a second on screen keyboard, as most other synth apps do (this suggestion has no effect on the subject of this post, however).
    It occurred to me that when using audulus as a synth and while adjusting these newly created user defined controls on their control surface, one would want to have a single keyboard opened up to make these adjustments correctly. The keyboard is likely to cover up some of these controls. Allowing screen panning to access them is inconsistent with the need for the position stabilized control surfaces and pedal board required for the guitarist.
    One of the great features of the iPad synths is being able to turn on and tune in with nothing more than a set of headphones, at a moments notice, when an inspiration strikes and noodle out a creative idea, without the inhibiting task of having to "set up". In fact, not having a keyboard yet, (I have a lot of expensive shopping to do), I rely heavily at the moment on the iPad keyboards and have become quite adept at playing them, and still getting better (I have a ton of backing tracks with drums and synths that I have developed on the iPad alone awaiting my guitar tracks for completion.) The point is not to underestimate the value of the keyboard and its functionality.
  • Dwarman,
    Are you saying that the 20 and the 6 max out at 4 input channels on the iPad, and, if not would 5 to 8 simultaneous channels be too much of a CPU load for the iPad in your opinion (I typically wouldn't run more than 5, except possibly on rare occasions.)
  • Oh no, I was taking 8 as an example of =what iOS provides to show the three stereo one mono in, quad out, as mentioned initially.

    No, all 18i20 channels are available. I should have screen shot the input and output matrices of Auria. Take up the whole screen width. 8 analog + 8 ADAT + 2 S/PDIF input, 10 analog + 8 ADAT = 2 S/PDIF + 2 (bonus) iPad Headphone outputs (that only show if you plug headphones in). It is quite impressive.
  • As to CPU load, on my iPad 3rd gen Auria itself can be quite heavy especially if using inserts. And most especially if you try to combine it with a full AudioBus input load such as Magellan and Sunriser at the same time.

    I have managed to live jam with Magellan and BS-16i feeding stereo each to Auria and all 8 inputs from the 18i6 fed from external, and that ran literally all day.

    iPad 4 is twice as powerful, I am waiting for iPad 5.
  • @BTL: no worries, on the contrary, I am always happy to expand my knowledge, which is the case here. You are very right, being concerned about your fidelity. I will keep on looking for new appearances on the Interface-horizon, but as of now, the UCX seems kind of my only choice anyways... . -(the 18i20 sounds interesting, though)-
    Greetings, animal
  • Are multiple outputs still on the road map? I'm very interested in using Audulus 3 with some Expert Sleepers modules.
  • Oh thats a good idea. I wish my MOTU worked with my iPad.
  • @biminiroad Any updates on multiple outs yet?
  • @tjdoin - Taylor is working on this now - ever since I got an ES-8 he's been really excited for the possibilities with modular. He's doing that, Ableton Link, and MIDI out right now.